"It is important that we advocate the support of women and not just talk"

Christian Pellis has been Chief Executive Officer of Amundi Deutschland GmbH since the beginning of the year. Before that he worked for Amundi in Paris as head of third party sales. We talk to him about his plans for the German market and how he wants to promote women - and why

Since the beginning of the year, you have taken over the CEO job of Amundi Germany from Evi Vogl. How does it feel to follow in the footsteps of a woman like Evi Vogl?
For the quota of women at management level, it is of course not good that I am a man (laughs). But when you take on the job, it doesn't matter whether the predecessor is a man or a woman, but how it takes place. With Evi and me it was a simple transition because we have known each other for a long time. Evi has led the team for ten years and also managed the merger between Amundi and Pioneer. Since I've been living in Munich with my partner and my youngest son since August last year, I was in the office with Evi for a few months. During this time, Evi and I talked a lot with each other and also with customers, everything is virtual due to the Corona. So I was able to slowly grow into it and get to know the team. As CEO, Evi fulfilled her role until the last day. I then took over on January 1, 2021.

Let's be honest: What was your first thought when you saw that Amundi Germany is a supporting partner of Fondsfrauen?
I knew that Amundi Germany supports Fondsfrauen. Evi was also voted Role Model of the Year at the Fondsfrauen Award 2019. Word of this award got around to Paris and I am delighted that we are continuing to support the fund women. Overall, Amundi is already doing a lot internationally to support women in their careers, but the focus is not only on women. Topics such as non-discrimination and the promotion of diversity have been part of Amundi's DNA and anchored in internal guidelines. As a central theme of society, we focus on inclusion as well as closing the generation gap and possible cultural differences. All forms of non-discrimination must be taken into account. It is our task as management that we as a company continuously improve and enable more diversity. We are convinced that only an open and transparent approach to these issues can help overcome existing hurdles and enable change. Changes, which in turn represent a potential source for the future development of the company.

And another little anecdote on the subject. The Amundi Women Network was founded in Paris in 2017. At the first event, I was one of the guest speakers - as a man. I am convinced that women and men are equally talented, but that the financial industry is still very male-driven.

What do you want to achieve in terms of promoting women at Amundi Germany?
In Northern Europe it is often the case that women do not always come back or only come back with a very limited number of hours after they have had a child. One of the reasons is probably childcare. In Germany, school ends at noon. But even before that it is difficult, I can see that with my 4-year-old son here in Munich. In France and Spain there are kindergartens and schools that offer all-day care, which makes a lot of things easier - especially when both parents are working. Where there is no such care, it is usually women who first reduce hours in order to ensure child care.

My goal is to bring women forward in Germany and to deal with such topics. We are therefore currently building an Amundi Germany Women Network. For me it goes without saying that I take on the sponsorship for it. Jean-Jacques Barbéris, our chairman of the supervisory board, is the sponsor for it in Paris ... so the new women's network has two male sponsors - one in Paris and one in Germany.

However, it is also clear that you cannot increase the number of women in management overnight. But we are working on it!

Before joining Amundi, you held positions at LGT Capital Mgmt., Threadneedle and Fleming Fund Mgmt. Every fund company has its very own culture. What is the most obvious culture for you at Amundi?
Amundi has a very Franco-Italian culture. I used to work in companies with an Anglo-Saxon culture. But it's not that one thing is better or worse, it's just different. In France you are given an extremely high level of responsibility. I was able to implement sales via sales partners there, as I could well argue based on my many years of experience.

At Amundi, we have a very open culture thanks to the matrix management culture. You always have two bosses: one on site and another in Paris. As an employee, you have to explain every decision well in order to convince people. This cross-checking of decisions is probably not bad at all: If you cannot explain a decision well, it may not be good in the end.

Amundi manages around EUR 66 billion for its German investors alone, and last year went extremely well. What are your further plans for Germany?
Yes, Evi's team did a great job last year and brought in 14 billion euros in new money in the German market, which helped us a lot in the Corona year. The money did not come exclusively from existing customers, but we gained new ones. It is important to me that we have as broad a spectrum as possible in sales: IFAs, our partnership with HypoVereinsbank that came about during the pioneering days, and institutional business. Diversification is important here too.

And what about further plans? We have drawn up a 3-year plan on how we can grow in Germany. We are represented here by 21 fund managers. We also want to offer this expertise to institutional clients outside of Germany. I know our sales in Europe from my previous position as head of third-party sales. I can then say "talk to him or her". In this way we can further expand our business in Germany.

Amundi offers both passive and active funds. How do you see the competition between these two product types?
We don't see any competition. Rather, we believe that both strategies can play a role in portfolios. Investors have their own guidelines, criteria and investment goals - which can be either passively or actively or a combination of both. Amundi's strategy is to offer both active and passive products in order to continue to provide unbiased advice to customers. Where I agree with you, passive investing has increased dramatically in recent years and it is likely that passive business will continue to grow in importance around the world. This not only applies to institutional investors, but also to the retail business. However, since there are no commissions to be earned with ETFs, the advisors have to take money for their advice - this requires a rethink. But in asset management the cost pressure is simply there. For us as asset managers, too, the margins for ETFs are lower. Therefore we have to grow on the one hand and produce cheaper on the other. For example, we have recently merged many products in order to be able to work more efficiently.

How is mutual fund distribution changing and how are you responding to those changes?
In the 2021/22 business plan, I changed the sales team. Before it was individual sales units, now it's a large team. In this way we can cover more customers in this area. I also see a trend: sales employees are increasingly acting as a kind of consultant. They exchange ideas with their customers and contribute their expertise. Product sales are no longer in the foreground. At some point, of course, the product will come along because the conversation is going on. This trend encourages other people in sales, namely those who understand: What is the customer's problem and how can it be solved?

You are Dutch ... how is it as a Dutchman in Germany?
You know, I've been living in Germany for almost as long as I've been in Holland. I have already lived and worked in Germany twice for a number of years. My three children from my first marriage were all born in Germany. Coming back to Germany now feels good, like coming home.

In addition to other ESG issues, does Amundi ensure that its portfolio companies have a sufficient quota of women on management boards? Or are you still working on this topic?
We address this topic. After all, we have a female CEO in Valérie Baudson since May 2021.

And what about Amundi globally?
We do not have an explicit quota for women. But we manage and monitor progress in the numbers on gender diversity, and they have been doing well over the past few years. We believe that our measures will enable us to increase the proportion of women managers on the Executive Committee in the medium term. It is currently 28%. Amundi has 41.7% women on the Board of Directors, five out of twelve.

We are also a member of the Women in Finance Charter. With this charter, the UK's Department of Commerce and Treasury and the undersigned companies commit to work together to build a more balanced and equitable industry.

In addition, we founded the 30% Club France Investor Group in November 2020. This investor group is calling on large French companies to develop an action plan to ensure that their boards are at least 30% women by 2025.

How will you specifically promote the women at Amundi Germany?
We already have many female employees at Amundi Germany; not necessarily in leading positions yet, but we want to get there together with Manuela Reiter, our HR manager.

My observation is, and it complements my remarks on the subject of childcare in Northern Europe, that especially in Germany, many women no longer come back to the company when they have children. Even with Corona, it was more the women who stayed at home and took care of homeschooling. I mean to say that women must of course also want to do so, and it is our job to make it easier for them.

As a man, why are you so committed to advancing women's careers?
The topic is close to my heart. I have two grown daughters who are studying. If they couldn't put their talent and training to work later on, it would be a shame. My two daughters should be able to look after themselves later. Of course, money and a career are not everything, I want my children to be happy. But when two people do the same job, they should also earn the same amount. It is important that we stand up for it and not just talk.

Many Thanks for the interview!